Saeima of the Republic of Latvia

Interviewer.

Could you please explain how you found out about the Putsch and what happened at the embassy during that time?

J. Peters.

Back then, in August 1991, I was appointed... The Latvian government had decided that the Liepāja Naval Port ought to be taken under Latvian jurisdiction.  Bišers [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia], and I along with several other colleagues, were put on the committee. I was appointed chairman. I was terrified – what do I know about taking over the Naval Port? But then I calmed down because I realised that Bišers, some lawyers and some others were also there, and I was there as a General. I came to Riga and drove out to Vitrupe, as always, and Gorbunovs [Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] came to visit me. He arrived in a VAZ, together with his wife Lidija, who had brought a bag of tomatoes from their garden, and drivers. No, there was one driver… and his bodyguard from the KGB, appointed by Johansons [Chairman of the KGB of the Republic of Latvia]. Gorbunovs let him go for a walk on the beach.

We ate the tomatoes; my neighbours, who were fishermen, had caught a salmon... This and that...

Why did he come? He came to talk to me about what he should do. He had been invited to a congress or something organised by the ALA, the American Latvian Association. But what should he do? He already knew he was going to be there and that then he would be invited to meet some minor White House official....

Interviewer.

... and the U.S. President would walk in...

J. Peters.

...George Bush Senior would pass by to talk to the official and see – oh, there’s another gentleman here...  He wanted to hear my opinion on what he should do: should he go to Moscow and meet with Gorbachev before going to Washington or not? I said that, of course, he should visit Gorbachev beforehand because then he’d be all that more interesting to Bush.

Gorbunovs went home happy, but the next morning… It was on Monday... He visited me on Sunday...  My son, who was just a boy, runs to me and says: “Dad, something’s happened in Moscow... There is a coup d’état in Moscow.”

I was deeply distraught, surprised... I decided what had to be done. I had to load the family into the car, my VAZ, and drive to Riga. I had to go to the Supreme Council. In Gorbunovs’ office... Gorbunovs was sitting in his chair, and Ivars Godmanis [Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Latvia] was sitting in the other one. Ivars had his head in his hands and he was saying: “They’re really going to put the pressure on us now! They’re going to put the pressure on us!” But Gorbunovs was very… Ivars always tends to panic – we all know that... be it a coup, rising prices or a banking crisis... Gorbunovs looked at us, stuck his head out the window and said: “They’ve put a helicopter over the Supreme Council.” I said: “Gentlemen, what should I do now?” “Do as you see fit.” And I said: “Then I’m going to work. I’m going to Moscow.”

There was an armoured personnel carrier at the foot of the Vanšu Bridge... What are those called? APCs? And someone had put a bouquet of flowers on its bonnet.

Interviewer.

Had someone already kissed the tank?

J. Peters.

Someone had kissed the tank. Anyway, I drove on and arrived at the airport. The passengers were calm, the plane was full. That was strange. There was a big bellied manager or a fish farmer, sitting next to me, and he said: “No, no, nothing will come of it!” He was quite calm.

We arrived in Moscow. Andrejs Eizāns, a fellow member of the Supreme Council of the USSR and my second-in-command – God rest his soul – was waiting for me, and he was laughing: “Haha! Mr. Peters, they don’t even know how to do a proper Putsch over here!” That same evening Andrejs Eizāns and I put our USSR Supreme Council IDs into our pockets… our IDs opened many doors back then… took the car and went to the so-called White House – the Cabinet of Ministers of the USSR... the Russian Federation. Things were the way they were there. Oh, no! A police officer pulled us over on the way there, we showed him our IDs, and he said: “Do not go there!” – “But we’re members of the Supreme Council!” – “Oh, in that case go on!”

And then... It was interesting there. People were moving around anything they could – boulders, just like the ones here in Latvia, large concrete blocks. I distinctly remember – there were headboards from metal beds, like the ones you have in hospitals, and they were building. They were building around…

Interviewer.

A line of defence.

J. Peters.

Yes. People were walking around; a pretty couple was even kissing right next to those blocks. I remember an army officer carrying many big loaves of bread – either he was preparing for a siege or he had a large family. And just ordinary people... Some were walking their dogs, others were building something. There were some bonfires burning already, there was the smell of smoke. We drove up as close as we could, but then the funny thing was that half an hour later, when we wanted to leave, it turned out that we couldn’t because we had been walled in....

Interviewer.

Everything had been blocked up?

J. Peters.

Everything was blocked. Later Ivan Silayev, Chairman of Russia’s or Yeltsin’s Council of Ministers – he’s disappeared now... back then... later he told me: “We learned that from you – the Balts – to build barricades.”

Night came. We didn’t stay there; we went home and slept at the representation office. That’s when everything started... Somehow we weren’t scared. People came to us asking for political asylum – Russians, Moscovites, they were so naïve... We were still a Soviet republic de facto... We told them we didn’t have any more room, no more beds. Like that...

Some Latvians from Sweden and a Latvian radio station from Canada phoned. I explained what was and what wasn’t happening. That is how those days passed.

Then we found out that five tanks from the Kantemirovka Division or Garrison – I’m not familiar with the terminology – had taken Yeltsin’s side. Some said that they were... that the commanders must have been paid an awful lot to do so. Could be! Back then in 1991, the first people who had something to lose had already emerged; the first so-called cooperatives had been established. Then Rutskoy, who was later imprisoned and who was a pilot – he had been a pilot in Afghanistan – flew a rumpled and tired Gorbachev in from Foros, Ukraine. A rumour circulated then that all the putschists were on a plane en route to visit Saddam Hussein... and then to Cuba, but they weren’t flying anywhere. Then news came that Shaposhnikov, Marshal of Aviation, had promised, if you believe the tale, to bomb the Kremlin, where the putschists were stationed.... if they didn’t surrender.... Kozyrev [Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Russian SSR] appealed to the world to recognise the independence of the Baltic States; that’s a fact... they don’t write about it here....

Interviewer.

I missed that, too.

J. Peters.

Yes, Kozyrev....

Interviewer.

During the Putsch, Kozyrev called for recognition...

J. Peters.

Yes, yes... on the last day of the Putsch or maybe even during it, he called for the recognition of the independence of the Baltic States.

Interviewer.

But formally he was Minister for Foreign Affairs...

J.Peters.

Formally he was Yeltsin’s… Minister for Foreign Affairs of Yeltsin’s Russia. Yes. Kozyrev promised to establish a Russian government-in-exile abroad if the Putsch were to continue... that’s how it was... And then – a delegation of the Supreme Council headed by Anatolijs Gorbunovs, upon Yeltsin’s invitation, came to meet with him. What date was that? 22 August. I’d have to check. The delegation [of the representatives of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] arrived. There was Gorbunovs, Bišers, Einārs Cilinskis, Ojārs Kehris and Vladimirs Dozorcevs as a representative of the minorities...  as a progressive-minded representative of the minorities... I forget now who else.... Naturally, I joined them.... Marina Kosteņecka... was she there? Well, these are the people I remember; I’d have to check if I’ve forgotten someone....

We went to three significant offices. We went to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. There was a terrible feeling... Let’s say, the suicide of Boris Pugo [Minister for the Interior of the USSR] left me with a feeling of tragedy. I mean... I had just spoken to him; I had occasionally had rather constructive discussions with him in Riga... And suddenly he’s shot himself. Some say he was shot. I don’t know.

We went to the ministry where he used to work, to his office... and there was a new Minister for the Interior; we talked with him – the new minister.

Interviewer.

What did you talk about?

J. Peters.

Mostly we talked about the fate of OMON. What to do with the Riga OMON. He agreed that OMON had to be withdrawn, but he said: “Be careful! They’re like beasts now. We have to be... We’re going to take them to Tyumen, Russia.”

Interviewer.

And so it was.

J.Peters.

Yes. It must have already been planned like that, but planned hastily... “But they’re like beasts...” and that they couldn’t just be forced all of a sudden or something....

Then we went to see Marshal Shaposhnikov, who had been appointed Minister for Defence. Marshal Shaposhnikov… yes, he agreed that the withdrawal of the army would be arranged. I don’t remember the details; Gorbunovs was the main spokesman. In principle, they would withdraw the Soviet or, by then Russian... no, the Soviet armed forces. We agreed on that.

And then we went to see Bakatin, Chairman of the KGB. He was actually Gorbachev’s man – Yeltsin’s too, you might say. And that was the most interesting thing: we walked into Lubyanka, the headquarters of the KGB, and without a word... we just showed our passports and there was no special control... We went upstairs, past the lift somewhere, and we walked into that huge office... Actually, that was an event in itself! You need great prose- or essay-writing talent – a poet will not do – to describe it. Kryuchkov just sat there and not only he... Shelepin and all the others, I don’t even know... Semichastny and, obviously, Beria once. Maybe it had been rebuilt, I don’t know...

We went into his office and he greeted us all rather politely. Something he said was yet another surprise to me... Gorbunovs explained how things were and everything... Bakatin asked about Rubiks [member of the Politburo of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, First Secretary of the Communist Party of Latvia and Chairman of the State Committee for Emergency Situations] whether it was true... Rubiks had just been arrested. Was it true? Gorbunovs said yes it was true. Then Bakatin said: “Yes, your Committee for State Security has to be handed over to your government.” Gorbunovs replied something diplomatic... he didn’t say outright that we were liquidating the Committee or anything... maybe he said something more along the lines that maybe the chairman should be changed or something like that. And then... Gorbunovs asked something very specific. And Bakatin spread his hands and said: “I’m being kept in the dark here.” The employees, you know… He was not welcome. What was going to happen? But he was there. That was an interesting fact.

Furthermore, he asked Gorbunovs: “Who is guarding you, Anatolijs?” Without blinking an eye, Gorbunovs replies: “KGB.” Bakatin then says: “You’re a very brave man, Anatolijs!” (Laughing)

The most important event, of course, occurred on 23 August, when all of us, the whole team led by Gorbunovs, I won’t repeat all the names, were invited – not to say “charged” – to visit the President of the Russian Federation Boris Yeltsin. When we entered the White House, it was like in the Smolny – as I, being a child in Soviet times, would have imagined one to be from the way it was described in history books... There were bonfires outside; boys, just average boys, were sitting around them with all the essentials – vodka and everything. Once in awhile they would sing a little; someone was even playing music... So we went inside. We were met by a boy with a gun – perhaps it was a Kalashnikov or something else – and he politely led us further inside. There was tobacco smoke everywhere, not like in the buildings of respectable parliaments or councils of ministers. Everything was smoky; some people were just lighting cigarettes.... We were taken up in the lift. Boris Yeltsin’s office had a massive door; in Russia they like things to be big. And it was full of people! Some were waiting, some were on duty, some were on guard, some were talking. You couldn’t understand who each one was. Some were dressed in smart suits, some were in uniform, others were in camouflage... But everyone was waiting. We had to wait as well. We had an appointment for a specific time, but we had to wait.

Rutskoy ran up to Anatolijs Gorbunovs and says: “Is it true that you’ve arrested Rubiks?” Anatolijs, discreet as always, said: “Yes, well... the situation was such...” Rutskoy patted him on the back and said: “Good job!”

A year or two later, when Rutskoy was being shoved into the police wagon, I thought: never wish prison on somebody....

So it was like that.... That was an event of sorts.

We waited some more... The big presidential doors opened and a delegation headed by Rüütel [Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Estonia], exited. Aha! I remember thinking that it had been the Estonians that made us wait... They shook hands with Gorbunovs... We went inside, and there was Yeltsin, of course, who wasn’t sitting behind a desk; he was standing and, as a true Russian, he hugged Anatolijs Gorbunovs and shook hands with the rest of us. Andrey Kozyrev, Minister for Foreign Affairs, was at his side. There were two of them... but no one else... no secretaries, no assistants, no servants, nothing... And then: “Take a seat!” Everyone sat down. As it turned out, everyone sat down, but, the polite man that I am and as a kind of representative, the local ambassador even, I remained standing; there was no chair for me. Yeltsin said, right away: “Well, there are no more chairs!” Kozyrev didn’t move an inch although he should be the one moving... And he went to the other side of the room – President Boris Yeltsin – and brought me a chair.

Well, that’s just a remark... a sidelight....

So, he started explaining all that had happened. It’s as if he was continuing a long story that he already started telling at night or in the morning. And, of course, he had continued it with Rüütel and the Estonians... and so on... the planes flew here and there... and then this came and that... He was explaining the situation. And shots were fired and such... Like a child... like a storyteller.

And then he gave us an unremarkable little piece of paper... rather ordinary... plain...

Interviewer.

A liberation paper...

J. Peters.

Yes... it was the decree on the recognition of the independence of the Republic of Latvia. The first paragraph was to that effect. The second one charged the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia to establish diplomatic relations with us. We were gratified. I wouldn’t say we were slapping each other on the back as the Georgians or Italians do... But it was moving. And when we arrived at the embassy, our people, the local technical staff, greeted us, and they were happy... even Russians in the cafeteria applauded us....