Saeima of the Republic of Latvia

Interviewer.

What were you doing at the time of the Putsch and how did you find out about the Putsch?

E. Cilinskis.

It was very interesting. At that time Yavlinsky [member of the State Commission for Economic Reforms] had devised the 500-Day Programme for the USSR economy. It was rather interesting. Actually it was also meant for Latvia because many did not expect that we would somehow rapidly get rid of… there were serious seminars held at the Council of Ministers regarding this document. And as the economic issues addressed in this document were rather interesting, I decided to attend one of these seminars.

So in the morning I took a train from my summer cottage to the Council of Ministers. I had not listened to the radio and it was around 10 o’clock, or whatever was the time for the seminar to begin, I entered the building of the Council of Ministers and found out that nothing was happening and that there was the Putsch. The situation was completely different.

Interviewer.

What happened afterwards?

E. Cilinskis.

Then I went to the Supreme Council, of course. Soon afterwards some kind of sittings began, and decisions were made on this matter.

There is maybe one thing that should be documented, namely, the meeting of the Board of the LNNK [Latvian National Independence Movement] was held on the same evening. And then actually the news was spread that Estonia has proclaimed its independence. And then at that meeting of the Board of the LNNK, I suggested that our Supreme Council should do the same. And the Board supported my suggestion. Back then Visvaldis Lācis was the Chairman of the LNNK; and he together with Antons Mikoss [member of the Board of the LNNK], went to the Latvian Radio, which was still broadcasting, and announced our request on the air. And the next day we submitted our request to the Supreme Council; as a result, a work group chaired by Andrejs Krastiņš [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] was established to draft the Constitutional Law.

I don’t know… of course, it wouldn’t have changed the essence of the matter, but in my view, if there had not been such an initiative, most probably we wouldn’t have been able to adopt this Constitutional Law so rapidly while the Putsch was still in progress. It means that it would have been adopted anyway but slightly… let’s say similarly to Uzbekistan, which also proclaimed its independence. Therefore, I think that it is a rather significant aspect.

Interviewer.

What was the atmosphere at the Supreme Council?

E. Cilinskis.

I think it was diverse. Well… it depended on who felt what. And probably opinions varied but definitely the absolute majority of the parliamentary group of the Popular Front thought that yes… That is, they actually did what they had to do. Thus, even if somebody… there are discussions going on about where who was and whether somebody wanted to save their skin and ran off, but I think that… even if it was like that, it was to a minor extent. And, actually members of the Supreme Council fulfilled their duties.

Interviewer.

Did you at the time of the Putsch… there were several tense situations even before… realise that not only you but also your family might suffer from possible repressions?

E. Cilinskis.

Honestly speaking... I hadn’t thought about it that much... I hadn’t considered that thoroughly... Events were taking place, and it seemed that we just have to do what we have to do. Let’s say, it might have been the imprudence of youth or something, but actually I did not think about it that much.

Interviewer.

Were you afraid at any time?

E. Cilinskis.

To a certain extent, I might have been afraid on 21 August... When we had adopted the Constitutional Law on restoration of independence and the OMON troops were menacing Dome Square, and then it was announced that they are close to attacking the Supreme Council... that was false information... or maybe they didn’t realise their intent... At that moment, there was an awkward feeling... That is the only moment that I remember because, in fact… They were there even during barricades, when there was shooting, it was somehow different... but at that moment it seemed that the OMON troops can attack… and attack regardless of the outcome of the Putsch.

Interviewer.

I share the opinion that if they had won – if the Putsch had succeeded – there would have been mass repressions, and no one would be able to go underground. Those people would have been simply destroyed.

But if we assume only theoretically that the Putsch had succeeded and mass repressions began, would you have used an opportunity to emigrate from Latvia?

E. Cilinskis.

Honestly, I have never considered that option. Really, I did not think about it at that time, and therefore it would be irrational to start thinking now about how it could have been back then. I did not think about it. But neither did I consider outright rejection of that option. I just… hadn’t thought about that.

Interviewer.

And what is your opinion of those who leave Latvia at any tense moment?

E. Cilinskis.

No… I already mentioned that majority of members of the Supreme Council faithfully fulfilled their duties, but I don’t rule out the possibility that someone might have run away. But I… It should be considered where and how, because let’s say that at the time of the Putsch there were some rather important foreign visits which had been arranged even before anything was known about the Putsch; therefore, to say that all of these people fled… I would not do that... So let it remain on the conscience of each individual what they did, and I wouldn’t care to comment on that. But, of course, if it can be proved that somebody did flee, then such an action is deplorable.

Interviewer.

You were one of the few persons who were in the Latvian delegation to Moscow to meet the leaders of the Russian Federation and heads of the security, defence and law enforcement agencies and to receive the statement of recognition from Russia. How did you come to be included in this delegation?

E. Cilinskis.

If I remember correctly, it was the LNNK’s suggestion... or probably it was suggested by Eduards Berklavs [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia]; actually, Gorbunovs [Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] accepted this proposal and included me in the delegation. And, actually, this delegation was composed of… to represent diverse perspectives… there was, for example, Dozorcevs [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia representing minorities]…

It should be noted that, of course, there were several meetings held but… maybe I just did not attend… but I most certainly was not present at any meeting with the representatives of the security, defence and law enforcement agencies. If there was any meeting of that kind, other members of the delegation must have attended it... And, actually, the only meeting that was held was with Yeltsin, who then signed the “emancipation proclamation”, which had already been prepared. And that was it. At that moment... the White House... there were some barricades left around the building, and there was a general euphoria in Moscow. While we were sitting in the waiting room, Vice President Rutskoy approached us and said: “So? Didn’t hope for that?” And he left. Let’s say, it still seems a little strange… if we take into account what happened to him a short while later.

Well... Yeltsin gave the impression of a strong personality, maybe as opposed to… or not yet… what was said about him as being a puppet or alcoholic or whatever... But at that moment definitely... he gave me the impression of a strong personality. That meeting was not very long. He asked whether Russians here would suffer reprisals, and then Dozorcevs said that we would not do that and... maybe I don’t remember the rest, but he definitely signed the statement there; we received copies of it and the meeting was over.

I haven’t been to Russia since. So it was my last visit to Russia.

Interviewer.

How did you feel when you received that statement? Because actually it was decisive...

E. Cilinskis.

Well, the feeling was that we will receive it... so there were actually signs that we would receive it... otherwise, the meeting would not have taken place if there hadn’t been… So... maybe back then it seemed as self-evident... maybe even more self-evident than it should have seemed...

Interviewer.

An ordinary event, yes?... (With a smile.)

E. Cilinskis.

No, not ordinary, but let’s say an event that maybe should have happened a long time ago or something like that.