| Andris Grūtups |
 |
|
A. Grūtups. It is clear that we were the first generation who had not had those repressions… who had not experienced… who did not emotionally experience repressions. In fact, we were the first… And that generation created Latvia’s independence because it did not have fear in that sense; we did not understand…
Interviewer. …what awaited us…
A. Grūtups. That’s right! Because we did not know and understand; we were not afraid. I think that on some level there was that awareness that anything could happen, but what and how? Only God knows! So, well… I also remember August, when…
Interviewer. Yes, now tell a bit more about August. Everyone was on holidays, more or less, in August… it was summer, and it was hot, beautiful weather…
A. Grūtups. Well, August was interesting. I remember standing at the entrance to the parliament building with Artūrs Kodoliņš [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia], and we were watching some committee chairmen suddenly leave for Estonia to go sailing somewhere, you know… I even said to Artūrs: “Artūrs, what is going on?” He said: “Well, you can see for yourself!”
Interviewer. Was that right at the time of the Putsch?
A. Grūtups. Yes. He said: “Well, you can see for yourself! For some reason,” he said, “now all the boys suddenly have to go to Estonia, have to go sailing somewhere, you know…” I don’t want to give any names; perhaps the time has not arrived yet… perhaps it has… I don’t know.
Interviewer. Well, that’s up to you. There were not that many members of the Presidium after all…
A. Grūtups. Yes, well. And then… I vividly remember that historic sitting. I can no longer recall precisely who was there and who was not; that can probably be found in documents.
Interviewer. Well, it’s all in the transcripts.
A. Grūtups. Yes, I participated when the vote on Latvia’s independence was taken. I remember Valdis Šteins [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] saying: “Guys, that’s it! Latvia is independent!” I thought: what is he yapping about?
Interviewer. Because nearby… well… in the Dome Square, they were already using smoke grenades…
A. Grūtups. But you have to understand – Valdis felt it, Valdis did… But I just thought: what is he yapping about? Well, and then I vividly recall that Berķis [Aivars Berķis, member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia and journalist] had recently been elected to replace someone…
Interviewer. Yes, I think he replaced Ziedonis [Imants Ziedonis, member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia and poet]…
A. Grūtups. He climbed up on those concrete barricades to address people. I just watched…
Interviewer. He read that text, yes.
A. Grūtups. I thought: well, bloody hell, what a hero! He just got elected; now he is in charge…
Interviewer. But as you said, he did not have that experience; we had a little.
A. Grūtups. No, I just did not feel like…
Interviewer. But you remember the rumours that there would be a meeting in Ikšķile, in a church?
A. Grūtups. We… I remember that. We had some kind of…
Interviewer. Tell about it a little bit because many don’t know about it.
A. Grūtups. I don’t know. That secret meeting took place somewhere near Riga, but where… I attended it back then. The talk went something like this: “Well, if need be, we will go into the woods with bonesaws [machine guns]!” I don’t remember the exact details; I was there. Where that was – I don’t know; I don’t remember. It was somewhere near Riga; there was a hall. After Unity [Equal Rights faction of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] left the hall, we understood that the shit would hit the fan. If these Russians were leaving, then we were in for an attack. And then there was that sitting, and it was discussed who would be sent abroad, whether it would be Īvāns [Dainis Īvāns, member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia and journalist] or someone else…
Interviewer. Yes, it was Īvāns.
A. Grūtups. And that the rest would have to go… Gorbunovs [Anatolijs Gorbunovs, Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] was also there; he chaired the whole thing, didn’t he?
Interviewer. But they agreed that those who survived would meet in the Ikšķile church or something… something like that…
A. Grūtups. I don’t remember that. I don’t remember that being said. I know that Andrejs Krastiņš [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] was talking about the woods and bonesaws and so on. And Īvāns would go abroad, to Scandinavia, I think, or somewhere…
Interviewer. But everyone says that those August days were a bit too short to… those three days… to…
A. Grūtups. Well, that was the talk back then. I don’t know.
Interviewer. What did you think?
A. Grūtups. It probably should have been a bit longer; then we would have seen who is who. Because… who was there? The boss of the Radio Committee had fled and someone else… I don’t really… [remember] those surnames…
Interviewer. Yes, yes, there were some bosses who could not be found for a long time.
A. Grūtups. I just recall that there was such euphoria at the end, in August, when all those from Unity [Equal Rights faction of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] were thrown out; they all expected to get arrested at any moment. I remember all that.
Interviewer. Only Rubiks [Alfrēds Rubiks, member of the Politburo of the Communist Party of the USSR, First Secretary of the Communist Party of Latvia and Chairman of the State Committee for Emergency Situations of the Republic of Latvia] was arrested, I think.
A. Grūtups. Well, yes. But not too many were arrested in Russia either, and they were soon set free… Somehow there wasn’t the feeling that they should be hanged or shot, right… But looking back maybe harsher measures should have been taken.
Interviewer. But, let’s assume the Putsch had succeeded. Would you really have gone into the woods with a bonesaw?
A. Grūtups. I cannot say. I think that… I don’t know. I assume that my instinct of self-preservation would prompt me to go, but I cannot tell you more because… Honestly, I don’t want to talk nonsense. I cannot tell you anything else. I thought that I didn’t have the emotional experience, the experience of repressions and that I… well, it all somehow…
Interviewer. Well, but then you still… Well, you mentioned that Šteins… He somehow understood that this was independence, that there was a legal constitutional document of 21 August and that we really were independent. But what was your inner feeling?
A. Grūtups. You know, when all of them left the television, the radio building and everything, then I understood that it was over.
Interviewer. That it could kind of be…?
A. Grūtups. Yes. Then it was over! Then I really grasped that we had a state, and there was no doubt about it. |
