| Druvis Skulte |
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Interviewer. How did you find out about the Putsch on 19 August? Ā D. Skulte. The Putsch? I found out about the Putsch by watching television. Ā Interviewer. The Dance of the Little Swans? Ā D. Skulte. Yes, there was the Dance of the Little Swans, and then that announcement was read out. Of course, right awayā¦ Ā Interviewer. Were you in Riga? Ā D. Skulte. Yes, I was in Riga. I rushed to the Saeima ā not the Saeima, the Supreme Council. There was that meeting, which was, in a way, an enlarged Presidium meeting or whatever it was called, with the Popular Frontā¦ Since I was the head of the Popular Front faction in the Supreme Council, all those issues were decided there. I was pleased that Gorbunovsā [Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] position was concrete and firm enough. Well, and thenā¦ Ā Interviewer. I think it was rather early, around 10 or 11 oāclock, when Gorbunovs issuedā¦ Ā D. Skulte. Yes, that is when the meeting took place; it was at that time. Ā Interviewer. Because there was no informationā¦ Ā D. Skulte. And afterwards there were these meetings, and then a situation developed about which we donāt talk enough nowadays. Because we have to keep in mind that we were in a complete information lock-out. So that communicationā¦ The telephones werenāt working, this and thatā¦ So the link with the districtā¦ communication with the CÄsis branch of the Popular Front was not possible. Ā Interviewer. The television building was captured in the evening; the radio building was captured in the afternoon and nightā¦ Ā D. Skulte. But since there were no communications, but there were all these Supreme Council documents which had already been adopted, they were photocopied, and then we, members of the Supreme Council from the countryside, went to our districts. I had already set up a joint meeting with the entire district management and Popular Front management over there. Then I brought the documents and explained the situation. Well, I wouldnāt say people were afraid. No, of course not! But there was a certain amount of confusion ā what will happen now? Ā Interviewer. Well, the situation was different from that at the time of the Barricades. Ā D. Skulte. Yes, of course. Ā Interviewer. How would you describe it? Was it more serious orā¦ Ā D. Skulte. I would describe it as being much more serious. Now thereās another thing I remember well. I went there and we discussed everything. Then StÅ«rainis, the Head of the Department for the Interior of CÄsis, got up and asked, rather personally: āSo what should I do now?āĀ Because actually all the people working with internal affairsā¦ In principle, they were constantly in a state of divided allegiance: they had Pugo, Minister for the Interior in Moscow as their big boss ā he was a member of the Politburo or whatnot ā and here they had the Minister for the Interior of Latvia. They did their share of manoeuvring between the two. Of course, I have nothing negative to say; the Head of the Department for the Interior of CÄsis was loyal enough, and the main issue was public order; there were no politicsā¦ But now he hadā¦Ā Well, then I answered: āYou have to decide for yourself. I cannot tell you to do either this or that! You choose. No one will reproach you here.ā Then he said: āWell, I am staying in this room.ā And, in principle, he made it clear during that meeting that it was over; the Putsch had put an end to it for him, and he was where he had to be. Well, if just a detail like thatā¦ Ā Interviewer. And then? Ā D. Skulte. Then, of course, after that meeting, it was evening already, I rushed over to relatives I had in Rauna. They said that everything was all right; whatever will be, will be. And then my brother-in-law drove me to Riga at night in his VAZ because I had to get there somehow; there was no public transport, and we had a meeting planned for the next morning ā 20 August. As we were driving out of Rauna, we saw a huge fire ā the Rauna hospital was on fire. Of course, it had nothing to do with the Putsch; it was just a coincidence. But the whole municipality was in suchā¦ Ā Interviewer. Stress. Ā D. Skulte. In stress. The whole hospital was in flames, all this on top of that informationā¦ And then on the way back, coming into Riga, the highway was completely deserted. Ā Interviewer. But werenāt the armoured personnel carriers there? Ā D. Skulte. The armoured personnel carriers were in the Jugla area of Riga and at another intersection along the way. But they were not performing any checks or anything. The cars were just parked there so they would have a psychological effect ā to dominate, to show who was in charge. So I came back, and then the next day was very interesting because, essentially, it was clear to us that nothing would be decided here, that everything wasā¦ it took little effort to capture the radio stationā¦ anything was possible, and no one would put up armed resistance. It was clear that the whole thing would be decided in Moscow. But it was not that easy to get information. And then you [JÄnis Gavars, member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia], EdvÄ«ns [InkÄns, member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] and Iā¦ As members of the Supreme Council we had access to the RÄ«dzene hotel, and there was Gulbis, who was the manager of the hotel. Well, that was one of the few places that already had these satellite antennae and where a signal could be captured. Ā Interviewer. There was also a government telephone which was working. Ā D. Skulte. Yes, there was the government telephone, and we could watch live broadcasts from Moscow on CNN, which happens regularly now ā from any hotspot, and itās nothing new to anyone anymore. But then there was that information and, of course, everything we saw on television we tried to pass on to everyone else by phone or some other means. And then, basically, on Tuesday night alreadyā¦ It was clear thatā¦ And then on Wednesday at noon already there was information that the Committee was fleeingā¦ And then we had the historic vote becauseā¦ Ā Interviewer. What do you remember about it? Ā D. Skulte. There was a good deal of stress, and many people were somewhere else; they werenāt thereā¦ Later on there would be disagreements about who was there to vote and who was not. But, overall, I think, the decision for us was the same as it was with the Declaration [on the Restoration of Independence of the Republic of Latvia, adopted on 4 May 1990]: we had to choose which road to take. The Estonians had already done it. It was not an issue for the Lithuanians because they were alreadyā¦ Then we adoptedā¦ It was short enough andā¦ Then, basically, it was clear that in any case we were on the other side, and we could no longer politically or otherwise reckon with representatives of a completely unpredictable collapsing empire, regardless of whether they were in Latvia or somewhere elseā¦ Nor with Gorbachev and the restā¦ It was clear that everything had collapsed there, and we had to move forward on our own and seek allies and supporters in the West, which was rather reserved towards us. Back then, during the transition period, no one attempted to recognise us and do something, but then the recognitions started ā one country, then another and anotherā¦ Even Russia itself. Ā Interviewer. How did you feel at the moment you were pushing the button or raising your hand? You could practically see through the windows the smoke grenades flying, the armoured personnel carriersā¦ Ā D. Skulte. A couple of members of the Supreme Council got their share of action ā JÄnis Kinna, I think; they had gone to take a look out of curiosity. Well, soldiers were given orders, and they didnāt care who was or was not a member of the Supreme Council. They had their last demarche there ā the OMON drove through the Dome Square up to the barricades, thatās how it all was. Surreal. Well, all right! So they would come, arrest us, take us away. That is how it would be. But, in any case, fear or anything like thatā¦ There are things that have to be done because there is no other option. To surrender or flee or change our position ā thatā¦. Wellā¦ No oneā¦ Ā Interviewer. Were you ready for the worst case scenario? Ā D. Skulte. Subconsciously ā yes, but I was not afraid; there was no calculating of where to flee, where to hide and where to get some kind of contingency bunkers ā I had not even thought about that, much less prepared toā¦ Ā Interviewer. But they were even handing out weapons here. Some members of the Supreme Council who wanted to could get those little handguns or whatnotā¦ Ā D. Skulte. Thatās right. All kinds of things happened. And then, I remember, that night we stayed in the Saeima building, and only a few people were left. Ziedonis Äevers [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] himself was guarding the barricades with a machine gun. Ā Interviewer. He was lying on the ground somewhere in frontā¦ Ā D. Skulte. Yes, everyone had pretty much gone offā¦ Of the big bosses, Andrejs KrastiÅÅ” [Deputy Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia] was in his office; he was in charge of everythingā¦ That was also rather ambiguousā¦ He was saying that someone was coming ā tried to start a panicā¦ But there was a certain calmā¦ Then 20 August ā the evening and night had already been interesting; many found themselves at a cross-roadsā¦ Ā Interviewer. There was talk of a kind of back-up meeting for the survivors if the Putsch had succeeded. Do you remember anything like that? Ā D. Skulte. Well, in any caseā¦ Maybe it was not strictly stated, but, in any case ā no. I remember that we had hid some of our activists, such as LÄ«gotnis [member of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Latvia and the Popular Front], I think, who could be attacked first. They were advised to go to the countryside, to some hayshed or something. I remember things like that. Due to political tactics, a part of the management who had been elected and had the opportunity to go abroad, if it came to the worstā¦ so that we would have some kind of representationā¦ Ā Interviewer. Well, so they could have that mandateā¦ Ā D. Skulte. Yes, that is that. But no one really discussedā¦ Ā Interviewer. What about your family? Ā D. Skulte. Well, my family was worried. Of course, it was worried, but I took it all with good humour and optimism. Of course, the neighbours said that some dark cars had been driving by the house. Was it true? There is no way to tell. Feeling was not pleasant even if all that wasnāt true ā maybe just a coincidence. But if a car with its lights off drives up to your familyās house at nightā¦ Wellā¦ Ā |
